Leadership made a point of prohibiting any recordings during this meeting—and even asked attendees not to take notes. That’s not how we operate. Transparency matters. This is a transcript of that meeting. We have removed the names of participants other than leadership. Edit 6/13/25: Leadership accused us (falsely) of recording this session. We did not. We have a very fast typist who took notes. We have reason to believe, however, that THEY may have recorded the session without anyone’s knowledge.

(leadership insists that all cameras are on)

Michelle Y. starts with introduction as former CEO (did not capture verbatim)

• Michelle Y. (paraphrased) states that The Trouble with Mickaboo website has a history of taking things out of context. I am not best friends with Fern and I am friends with many vets in the bay area
• We recently released Melaine and Vincent – it was a difficult decision for the team, and was not an arbitrary decision made by a single person. It was  made by several people over several weeks
  • We won’t discuss reasons for dismissal now or ever
• About the anonymous emails posted to Discuss list – they are not from a real person
  • We emphasize that the two emails are anonymous, there is no credit taken by individuals, we don’t know who they are
  • We now have to assume that anything that we at Mickaboo do or say may be taken out of context
  • We reassure you that we have nothing to hide
  • I am horrified that birds are accused of being abused
  • We reject the misuse of funds, resources, or relationships -> (joking) we’d be richer if there was nefarious activity
  • All activities are consistent with bylaws, articles of incorporation and policies
• Now addressing the newspaper reporting contents
  • These were anonymous concerns shared by volunteers relayed by a reporter
  • We are going to review the concerns of the letter from reporter and then answer questions

Sarah now screen-sharing the document with reporter questions and Mickaboo answers

• Sarah: We’re not hiding anything; this is not going to be a presentation of facts, but is intended to be a group discussion
• We were not approached with concerns or questions directly, the first we heard of any issues was via a newspaper reporter
• When we engaged with the reporter, the reporter sent a list of questions they wanted Mickaboo leadership to respond to
• Offered to answer questions throughout the presentation. Questions listed below with speakers:
  • (did not capture speaker): Are the questions on the [Trouble with Mickaboo] website the same as the ones you’re presenting now?
    • Sarah: Yes
  • Participant 1: Is the information in the spreadsheet and website (about budget spent) public? Or can we assume that this was leaked?
    • Sarah: No, this is private and shared with the reporter without permission; it is only internal to (team name, not captured) and was leaked
  • Participant 2: Says here [on the website] Tammy A. is a vet tech at FTB, but she is also a vet tech at Wildwood? (joking) Unless she was moonlighting?
    • Tammy: I was not a vet tech at FTB, I helped during COVID for one summer and a couple months the following summer, only to help with a staffing issue. I haven’t worked there since 2021. I have worked at (bay area birds?) for decades. I work(ed?) at Wildwood full time 3-4 years, and also worked at Medical Center for Birds in an externship.
    • Sarah: She was also only working 1 day a week during the summer that she was at FTB
  • Participant 3 (chat question): Is it true that foster parents are not provided $ for routine avian care of foster pets?
    • Pam/Sarah: They do get money for care but not regular care. Only for major illnesses. We don’t have enough funds so this cost is volunteered by foster parents. We get invoiced directly by avian vets, so there is no flow of cash through foster homes.
  • Participant 4: Does Mickaboo pay for annual vet visits?
    • Tammy: Not for routine purposes. 
    • Participant 4: I have an older bird and I take them to the vet yearly (rest of response not captured)
    • Tammy: Lots of pets go to Mickaboo for medical reasons, there are not enough funds to care for each one
  • Participant 5.: Can Tammy explain how Mickaboo started? It’s very interesting and maybe would help if everyone understand how Mickaboo began
    • Tammy (paraphrased): I started in avian vets in 1984, saw needs for birds as birds were routinely euthanized due to lack of care. (explains more about her vet tech background). I sold things and candy/cans to fund the care for birds. (explaining backstory of progressing into a NPO). Mickaboo is needed and my goal is hopefully eventually there’s not a need for it anymore when parrot trade and big box stores no longer sell parrots as part of the parrot trade
  • Participant 6 (chat question): Are the numbers shown in the investment section of the letter accurate?
    • Pam: I’m having trouble finding the section
    • Sarah L.: The numbers are correct, they’re taken out of Animal Shelter Manager (system) which all active admins have access to
    • Tammy: Telegraph Hill conures take most of the cost. If you take a pet to the vet, this is a high cost. At any given time, we have many birds requiring care. 400-500 birds at any given time. Non-Telegraph Hill birds are due to other reasons (owner in hospital, moving, death, etc.). Wild flock birds come to us 100% due to medical needs, not just a little sick but a LOT sick. They deserve care.
    • Sarah: To clarify, there are birds being mentioned in that section that are incorrect: Boomer is not a wild flock conure. He’s a Macaw.
    • Pam: (correcting Sarah) Well it does say he’s not a wild flock conure.
  • Participant 7 (chat question): What newspaper was the reporter from?
    • Sarah: I don’t know if we’re going to talk about that today. Michelle, is this a question we can answer?
    • Michelle Y.: Yes we can, there’s no hiding. It’s from The Chronicle.
  • Participant 8: I have found policymaking to be very transparent always. But I always wondered about one value that worries me sometimes. I know we want to keep our birds alive but I do sometimes think we are too hesitant to euthanize a bird that is quite sick and not going to get better. It does use a lot of resources. I would be comfortable if we reviewed that at some point and looked at the amount of money that goes towards keeping birds alive that could go towards other birds. And then the other thing is that I was very offended that Mickaboo was accused that we are institutionalizing birds [at SF Bird Hotel, FTB, etc.] when we simply don’t have enough volunteers.
    • Pam: I have some statistics in response to this presentation. Tammy, you have expressed to leadership the quality of life perspective that you have, you should share here too
    • Tammy: There is no easy answer, I went through this with my own mom and dad. When do you call it [for sick birds]? Is there a standard for wild flock parrots since they’re not pet birds? We have been able to treat birds individually and try to make decisions that are best for the birds. I do this because I love these birds and put thought/effort/concern into these decisions. It can’t be just a financial decision. (more about bird health). The birds are usually coming back with improved quality of life. Everyone has different definitions of a bird’s quality of life (ie. uncontrollable pain, can’t feed itself, etc.). I err more on the side of “what can we do to help them?”. I always defer to vets. 99% of the time I will agree [with their decisions], otherwise I will suggest [alternate care to give the bird a chance].
    • Participant 8: I’m not criticizing, it’s been done well and (praises Mickaboo for doing work for free).
    • Tammy (paraphrased): I do it because I love the birds
  • Participant 2: I wanted to address negative comments on the [SF] Bird Hotel. There’s no issue with the bird hotel, I have left my own pet there. I wanted to look at #4 on the list: can you respond to claims that Mickaboo spent $1M+ at FTB, a disproportionate amount went to wild flock parrots. I always wondered with limited volunteers, how are we able to take on the responsibility of the wild flock? Is there going to be a change in the policy and limit the number of wild parrots taken into care? Maybe change your whole program a bit to cover these costs without spending a disproportionate amount on them.
    • Tammy: Mickaboo gets calls from animal control that wild parrots are in trouble, and good samaritans call them as well. Wildlife centers won’t take them, no other domestic rescue will take them. They are no more wild than the parrots that we have in our homes. We would love for any suggestions to finding alternative care for these guys. Either we don’t do anything about it or take them in and try to care for them
  • Participant 2.: How many of these birds do you take in every month?
    • Sarah: Every month?
    • Pam: (we don’t have monthly data, more so yearly)
    • Sarah: Every year? It fluctuates. 10-15 birds a year. Last year we were in a spike and into the low 20s, mostly juveniles and victims of rat poison. They are very expensive birds because they require months of hospitalization to give them a chance. I’m concerned we may go down a lengthy conversation about wild flock parrots, maybe we can dedicate a separate meeting to discuss this. There’s a lot of material presented to the animal control commission where I shared numbers of wild flock we take in regularly. Any contributions to this effort (donations) would be fantastic. Also wanted to point out that all of the ones we take in are injured or sick. Disproprotionately, they are expensive. But they are not the majority of expenditure of birds. Birds from pet stores socialize just as well as wild parrots, that’s why ordinances exist prohibiting feeding of birds because they would be caught and taken home as pets. (more details about wild flock). We can discuss this later
  • Participant 6: I’m seriously concerned that there are some policies that have been decided  recently that have resulted on a disproportionately large amount of money on wild birds than pet birds. (agrees to next session on this). Another question: Is there a decision-making process with the board or is the board simply just approving decisions (without much input from members)? I don’t feel empowered to make decisions with the board. A lot of the questions are regarding Mickaboo’s discernment to make decisions as a board which is concerning.
    • Pam: We’ll take that as advisement
    • Sarah L: I’m trying to think of any major policy changes and I can’t think of any. If more transparency is helpful, we can do that. I tried to put images of the board members on our site to (help with that). (acknowledges Ted, a Zoom attendee, as board member). But thinking about policy changes back some years, I don’t think of any.
    • Participant 6: I’ve noticed that the board has evolved regarding wild flock decisions. I’ve noticed that most questions have questioned the wild flock. There’s a disconnect between what the board has decided and what the members want.
    • Pam: I would like to caution against a vocal minority.
    • Participant 6: Well I’m saying at least in this Zoom call. It is concerning. Maybe we have a (survey on what members want regarding funds for wild flock)
    • Tammy: What do you suggest we do about it?
    • Participant 6: We could potentially reduce the cost or create policy around our care for wild conures
    • Matt: I want to comment (introduces self as tech guy). I’m in a neat position in Mickaboo where I’m not an executive and not on the board, don’t have any responsibility but can still provide opinions. I have always been one of the volunteers that agrees it’s a disproportionate amount of money. I agree that a lot of money is spent on them and I don’t feel they are pets. But there is a knowing decision that a lot of them will die and we have to be okay with that if we reduce care. Another thing people are concerned about is the cost spent at FTB on the website. But what else are we going to spend money on? (comments on vet expenses) My whole mantra since volunteering is to help Mickaboo spend as little as possible, which is why I started to do tech, so the money can go back to the birds. Mickaboo spends close to 0 on tech because of the work I do. We only spend $70 a month which is basically nothing for an org of our size. I’ve donated in the 5 figures and 6 figures if we count my work for the org. 
    • Sarah: We worked pretty heavily to reduce the cost. The last few years we have decreased the population at FTB. It is around 50% less. We do not bring in every sick injured bird to FTB. We have done our best to manage and limit when only necessary. No bird is being denied care because well parrot care is our priority.
  • Participant 9: Before this journalist was approached, has this person or number of persons actually reached out to the board or executive team with these concerns? Was there any attempt to address them internally before this went out to the public? Because once it’s public and people see the headline it’s hard to rectify the situation. Was there any attempt by this group to come up with issues at a meeting? Other question is: the board meetings are never public or [I don’t] know when they are. Can we attend them as members?
    • Michelle Y: I don’t think these issues were ever raised to the board and I’ve been on the board for several years. We used to have board meetings at the Christmas party and I don’t think anyone ever expressed interest at the board meetings at all, other than we didn’t have good food/drink. There hasn’t been great deal of interest in the board but if people are interested, maybe we can attract more members who would like to participate in what is basically a fairly routine job. We do meeting minutes. They’re not private, but it’s very rare that anyone expresses an interest in them. But the idea of people being interested in what the board is doing is not something we’ve grappled with, but it’s a good idea.
    • Participant 9: It would be very helpful. It could be a good place for people to bring up issues as an open question/answer forum kind of thing. This is kind of escalating and can be quite damaging [to Mickaboo]. That’s why I’m interested in knowing how often you meet. 
    • Michelle Y.: If someone as a result of this meeting would like to raise a question to the board or whether we should rescue the wild flock, that is a legitimate question that should be posed to the board. But as far as I know, it hasn’t been raised as much as now
    • Sarah: It certainly has been a topic and been discussed and it’s our responsibility to ensure funds are used responsibly
    • Michelle Y.: I’ll clarify, I don’t think we’ve discussed NOT caring for the wild flock conures
    • Tammy: We discussed with the (did not capture) (and other orgs) but unfortunately it was not a solution-based discussion. This whole keyboard warrior coming forward isn’t helping at all, I wish more energy was focused towards finding a solution because this isn’t helpful at all
  • Participant 9: I don’t know how often you meet, what is the schedule? Monthly? Quarterly?
    • Sarah: The board has historically met 4x a year, last 2 years has reduced to 3x a year largely because we haven’t had a 4th in-person event for this to take place. Ted takes our meeting minutes. For transparency, the main thing that we discussed at our last meeting was that we were planning on spending budget on a new server. (this is) $4k in expenses, how do we allocate this without impacting other funds.
  • Participant 10: Regarding people attending board meetings, I’m on the board for HOA; the thing is that people don’t attend unless they have a problem. Until then, we’re typically content to let the board oversee things otherwise. I agree having meeting minutes or an open discussion would be helpful. I also want to acknowledge the services that Matt has been providing for free. I have always had a point of pride that all of our finances goes towards vet bills and no people cost, but maybe some of our funds could be invested in paying for things like a tech person, even a token amount. Because what happens if we suddenly don’t have Matt anymore and he is the person who is responsible for all our servers? If we had someone who is more of an employee, it might make things feel a bit more secure because that’s a lot to be all on one volunteer. Another comment on use of funds: perhaps to hire a third party to audit. I’m really worried about Mickaboo and there are too many birds depending on us for this to destroy Mickaboo. Perhaps we have someone come in and review how we can do things better and maybe give Tammy more support. It’s a lot on 1-2 people to make decisions. And maybe we can use the money to get more involvement in Mickaboo.
    • Pam: Thanks Participant 10.
  • Participant 11: I’ve been on several boards and some of these things I’ve heard of before. Just speaking about the wild flock as opposed to pet birds, I’d like to know what other orgs have been approached to deal with the wild flock. I’ve just gone to a Saratoga rescue funded by the Larry Ellison foundation. Brand new. Have you approached them?
    • Tammy: This is from Peninsula Humane Society which had a financially successful CEO for several years that transformed the facility (positively, praised the facility), but PHS is not typically open to help because SF is out of their jurisdiction. But we could ask again?
    • Participant 11: We should ask again. Worst they can do is say no. I support the wild flock but I don’t really think Mickaboo can afford it unless there’s a substantial change in the fundraising side. I’ve adopted many birds from Mickaboo, so our experiences have been good. But an area you can be more transparent is that when home visitors submit their reports, the board comes back and tells site visitor what happened with the home visit
    • Pam: And that’s the Approvals board
    • Participant 11: Well (I did a home visit recently) and it would be nice to know what happened afterwards. I just think there’s some sort of report back to home visits to know the outcome of the home visit. 
    • Sarah: For transparency, we do have a partnership with an aviary (did not capture name) that’s available for flight rehabilitation for birds that are releasable. One option for us is to bring them up there. (recently reached out to SF and one other location for options of support) (did not capture name).
    • Participant 11: You might ask Discuss for other options from the members. I don’t know if you’ve done this already. I had visited the Ellison center and thought it could be a possible solution.
    • Pam: I have put that on our list.
• Pam: With respect to everyone’s time, we do want to address the letter and commit to a second session.
• Sarah: Maybe we should take some suggestions from the chat.
  • Participant 12: Are the financial numbers from the letter true? Do we spend 77% of the vet expenses in 2024 in FTB? 550k?
    • Sarah: (shared screenshot of budget spreadsheet) (confirmed the accuracy of the expenditure)
    • Participant 12: I thought it would be more at Wildwood or MCFB
    • Tammy: If we go to either of those, the cost would be higher. FTB gives us a good discount and (owner) used to have a rescue in Hawaii. She is very charitable and gives us a better discount. And the location is very convenient compared to Oakley. I sense there’s an accusation for why we go to FTB more. I love all vets (lists off several names of vets she knows). The only reason we don’t use them more is because of the location. It’s hard to transport birds to Oakley. (more explanation on locations of birds and cities transported to/from such as SF, San Jose, etc.)
    • Pam: We used to take them to Davis when UC Davis used to take birds, but not anymore after the pandemic.
    • Tammy: You have to be an active patient at UCD to be seen for an emergency. 
    • Participant 12: By asking questions, I want you to know that I really care about birds. I really value what you all are doing. (starts crying) Sarah L does so much for the birds and her dedication is unbelievable. I thank you all for your dedication and hope that we can work together and keep Mickaboo going. I’ve argued with Sarah on planning but I still respect what you do. Mickaboo saved by boy Rainbow after 2 vets tried to euthanize him. No other rescue would save him.
    • Tammy: Thank you for sharing this with me
    • Michelle Y.: Thank you Participant 12 for saying these things. The gratitude helps a lot.
    • Participant 13: It’s remarkable to have this many vets in our service area and be able to spend this money on vets. Typically most places you need a few hours to get to any vet at all. It’s incredible we can spend this money. My thought after being on boards is that, if members don’t like what we do, then do your own
    • Participant 8: Hear hear, I agree with that so much
    • Participant 12: I don’t agree with that at all. [for example,] If Home Depot is racist, and you’re black, then [it’s on you to] get another job. It’s just not (reasonable). You can’t say it’s my way or the highway.
    • Sarah: Well Tammy is being accused of fraudulent, moral issues. 
    • Participant 12: I’m not saying I agree with everything. I’m saying I want to work on Mickaboo. There are some things we can work on. I don’t think it’s constructive to say is my way or the highway
    • Participant 8: Well the online person is trying to blow up the organization. And this is not how you do it. Going to newspapers and making a website to make it seem like a scandal. That is pure poison and not helpful to anyone. It’s disgusting.
    • Participant 12: [based on the website,] we [Mickaboo] fired volunteers for having different ideas, if I’m reading this correctly
    • Matt: The board has mentioned once or twice where if you have concerns about ethical issues, you can reach out to the email address. I’m on the receiving end of that address and I have no (loyalty) to anyone. I’m a PI for my day job and have impartiality (as part of my job). And I’m sad that they went to the press instead of me first. We don’t know what their motivations are but I hope anyone else in the future believes that the board wants feedback. I am always there for people who may feel discomfort approaching the board and discuss a way to anonymously report concerns. Whoever went to the press decided against going to me and that disappoints me.
    • (did not capture speaker): What is that address again?
    • Matt: What is it again? Ethics @ Mickaboo?
    • Tammy: Yes. Also we have not fired anyone for disagreements.
    • Sarah: We need to build that trust with our members and not violate that trust (missed this answer when I was asking a question in chat)
  • Participant 9: What are the next steps in this whole thing? There was a response, The Chronicle may be publishing this— I’m just concerned what direction Mickaboo will go. Can you say anything about next steps to address this crisis?
    • Pam: I see a couple tracks. The track with the reporter (shares screen): what you see is the first round of responses to the reporter, and then we (received a second round of questions and) sent back a second round of responses to the reporter. We don’t know how this is going to end, we are taking it one step at a time. The second track: is keeping the rescue going. Birds keep coming in. We know Vincent and Melaine left behind some roles. This is why we had a couple volunteer recruitment Zoom calls last week and this week, and we still have open positions and roles for people to fill. We are always looking for good people to help us. The need is a bit higher because of this situation. In response to the home visit discussed earlier, two volunteers have come together and (sorted out the situation)
  • Participant 9: Is the situation with the journalist the only thing going on or are there legal challenges ongoing as well?
    • Pam: We haven’t been sued, served papers, or had anything termed legal
  • Participant 10: Would there be a third track about the wild conures or policies?
    • Pam: We can definitely talk semantically about how many tracks that our big track devolves into. There is definitely a lot of interest about the wild conures and perhaps an advisory committee comes out of that if there are people who are willing to put in some time and thought other than (did not capture)
    • Sarah: I think we should have a separate meeting for more time for those interested in the wild flock. I do think it’s worth saying: “is it worth spinning off care of the wild conures in some shape or form?” Personally, I think we are stronger together. I wouldn’t even feel like I had an adequate level of knowledge to consider doing that now. Given the resources required to create two organizations, I feel this is a duplication of skill and effort. I fully understand that there are aspects that people feel are not the same, but my thought is that— whether birds are socialized or not —is that they are similar. I would be heartbroken to see the effort to wild conures be cut down. I think that’s what people should know before we start talking about the overhead for wild conures ,and that it hasn’t stopped us for other types of care. If we cut down the wild parrots then we need to (did not capture)
    • Participant 14: Maybe there is a disconnect. Mickaboo stands for COMPANION bird rescue. If you’re saying, Sarah, that all birds need care, then maybe the charter needs to be adjusted. We need to know where the money is going. If I’m dedicating money from my trust to ensure (my bird) is being cared for, and some of it is going to general care, I would be disturbed.
    • Pam: At the moment, funds we collect are unrestricted general funds. If the funds are given to us generically, then they are distributed to general care.
    • Participant 14: I also see Angel funds for specific birds, are they given to that bird?
    • Pam: Those birds are on the site because we are in the hole for their funds. Our criteria for birds on the Angel site is $1k+. The amounts we receive are spent almost instantly because they receive hundreds max. They are spent on those specific birds
    • Participant 14: I just want to know (did not capture)
    • Pam: If people (donate from wills, trusts, etc.), (they need to) direct where the money goes and be very specific, especially if the bird passes, where the donations should go.
    • Participant 14: There’s a whole section on recommendations, you guys mention you’re a (did not capture) (trying to improve as an organization)
    • Sarah: We had an online class that (did not capture). That is still going to be a priority for us. Also the conversation around paid staff, the board has discussed how to build out transitioning for paid staff. That is still very much on the table. I don’t know if Michelle wants to speak on that right now or later
    • Participant 14: I’m not looking for answers now. But what I would recommend, is that: the website clearly has a tab for recommendations. It would be good to take those and post the recommendations from past members and what the board decides on moving forward. And give reasons for how they were addressed. OK I’m done, thank you!
• Pam: Another question that Katie is pointing to us (in the chat)
  • Katie: Yes, it’s from Participants 15 and 16 on why we aren’t publicizing reasons for letting go Melaine and Vincent. I tried to answer that by saying it’s like when coworkers are let go; and personally I will just reach out to (the affected individual). Whistleblowing is not involved, whistleblowing is not a part of this event. There is no whistleblowing involved with letting Melaine and Vincent go. There is no whistleblowing with the reporting situation. It is a personnel matter and with personnel their privacy will be respected.
    • Sarah: Then if there is whistleblowing involved, our compliance officer will begin investigating. We want to give volunteers the confidence to use this outlet. Whistleblowing also involves a non-retaliation clause to be very clear
• Tammy: I got to go and go back to work. If anyone has any questions, reach out to me or in the next meeting
• Pam: The organization has to continue, the birds need us
  • Participant 6: I think there are two things that need to be pursued immediately. One is the conure thing: Maybe have a committee of members that can commit to this rather than giving opinions to the board and letting the board (make their own decisions). Two is that FTB is a big point in the Trouble with Mickaboo site. Maybe another committee is needed to assess the expenses, euthanasia, quality of life, etc. because there are a lot of concerns expressed and I don’t feel they have been really resolved at all. I don’t know much about FTB but there’s a lot of money involved. We could get a group of members to work it out. This transparency could be much improved with these two items addressed
    • Pam: We’ll mark it under advisement. I want to thank everyone for engaging in this important activity on a Saturday afternoon. It’s great to hear the interest. Michelle, do you have any parting words after starting us on this journey?
• Michelle Y.: We appreciate everyone who gave us this time on a pleasant day. My canary echoes my thoughts. I do want to remind everyone about our whistleblower policy. If you see something, say something, and we will protect your anonymity. I’m sure it will come as a surprise that we aren’t perfect at Mickaboo. All we can do is work as hard as we can to protect the birds and do our best. Thank you to all of us for helping us save birds and give them a chance of life. I promise we will keep doing that for the foreseeable future. And if you know anyone who likes birds, get them to volunteer. There are people out there who don’t know there are bird rescues for parrots, get them on board, we can use their help. Thank you and good afternoon!